tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post1388490948161434958..comments2024-03-27T11:43:33.889-04:00Comments on Stapleton Kearns: Mass drawing, and the scarcity of linear drawing in our current eraStapleton Kearnshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00226409516935208164noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-38533192814855303892009-06-16T21:32:13.383-04:002009-06-16T21:32:13.383-04:00Yep,
Before the days of forums like rationalpaint...Yep,<br /><br />Before the days of forums like rationalpainting.org, concept art was THE place to get honest, brutal criticism, which is why I joined in the first place. <br /><br />There are quite a few people solely interested in becoming painters that post there (like me), so I'm not surprised that they'd like your blog. <br /><br />And quite frankly I'm just a kid talking about stuff that's probably way beyond his understanding. Although I sure like looking at drawings!<br /><br />-RamonRamonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06368066115689857506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-20924069987802551742009-06-16T21:08:47.240-04:002009-06-16T21:08:47.240-04:00Ramon
I read your post. Maybe you should be doing ...Ramon<br />I read your post. Maybe you should be doing guest shots on this post.I had no idea any one over at concept art was into the fine distinctions between 18th and 19th century drawings, Who knew. <br />They have linked to me several times and some of those guys follow this blog. I am glad to be useful to them but I am surprised, as I am such a traditional painting guy. I guess a lot is universal. <br />.........StapeStapleton Kearnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226409516935208164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-47558273880166484342009-06-16T21:04:52.182-04:002009-06-16T21:04:52.182-04:00Jeff;
I think the mass to linear thing iss a conti...Jeff;<br />I think the mass to linear thing iss a continuum with Holbein or Hypolytte Flandrin being at one end and Michelangelo or someone like that on the other. <br />I don't comment on living artists other than Alex Katz.<br />...........StapeStapleton Kearnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226409516935208164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-86472785544628312962009-06-16T21:00:00.469-04:002009-06-16T21:00:00.469-04:00Jeremy:
In have to fight tthe tendency to do mass ...Jeremy:<br />In have to fight tthe tendency to do mass drawing all thje time. It is what comes most naturally to me.It would be nice to be for comfortable in a more linear techn ique.<br />..........StapeStapleton Kearnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226409516935208164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-7466100171546612412009-06-16T20:58:04.330-04:002009-06-16T20:58:04.330-04:00John;
All of these are things I copied myself. Ing...John;<br />All of these are things I copied myself. Ingres and Holbein are particularly good. I used tom copy ther Ingres from the originals at the Fogg museum.<br />...........StapeStapleton Kearnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226409516935208164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-22299782556287674422009-06-16T20:26:54.971-04:002009-06-16T20:26:54.971-04:00Yes that's true Jeremy it does become more lik...Yes that's true Jeremy it does become more like painting when he moves to the value part, but he's still thinking about the form and edges.<br /><br />When I think of massing I think of the DuMond idea which is pretty much related to painting. In his approach you start out with the largest masses and the drawing is about the action and so on.<br /><br />Holbein is trained in the German school which is very different from the Italian schools of this period. They were very linear in their approach. Careful drawing, then they would ink the panel and then paint. <br /><br />Very different from Titian or Tintoretto. <br /><br />I am partial to both, how it is mentioned the Speed books.jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03014751431677271423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-31065149684571881482009-06-16T19:13:50.834-04:002009-06-16T19:13:50.834-04:00Jeff, I see what your saying. Tony is definitely ...Jeff, I see what your saying. Tony is definitely on the other end of the spectrum as Gregg Kreutz. I have read Tony's book so I know how much he relies on linear relationships, but so did Prud'hon, and Michaelangelo, etc., which Stape classified as mass drawing. I agree with what you are saying, I think that we are mostly differing on semantics. He is linear in approach, but most of the linear quality seems to disappear (in my opinion) as he resolves the form into a solid, fleshy thing, while it is still very evident in a finished drawing of Holbein or Ingres.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17579185594957855023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-12097022508688391022009-06-16T18:35:01.101-04:002009-06-16T18:35:01.101-04:00Hi Stape, great post as usual! We actually had a v...Hi Stape, great post as usual! We actually had a very interesting discussion on conceptart.org regarding different drawing approaches...although the focus was not so much on line vs mass, as it was on tactile (3d, form driven) vs optical (2d, shape driven) approaches.<br /><br />This is all very interesting, I ended up writing more than I intended in the discussion! (I'm panchosimpson)<br /><br />Check it out if you have a chance<br /><br />http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=160487<br /><br />This post in particular<br /><br />http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2299985&postcount=13Ramonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06368066115689857506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-9179416875335302022009-06-16T16:59:48.621-04:002009-06-16T16:59:48.621-04:00Well you can't have tone without a values, rig...Well you can't have tone without a values, right. You have to deal with the massing of these values, general to specific.<br /><br />The way Tony draws is very linear in fact having studied this methodology myself I would have to disagree with you. His paintings are drawn out, then filled in. He does both. He also does not do as much cross hatching as it might seem. There are a lot of techniques being used here, he's a master at graphite. <br /><br />If your doing a massed in approach your not going to do this. You will mass in a shape, not draw a linear line drawing. In Tony' approach, which comes out Ted Seth Jacobs, you spend a lot of time working on linear relationships. You draw out the shapes of the shadows and so on. Tone does not enter into this until you get all the contour right.<br /><br />I would say that's pretty linear approach. <br /><br />Lets look at another painter, Gregg Kreutz he uses a massing in approach and from what I have seen of how these two teach based on their books mind you, there is a huge difference in how these two approach drawing, especially as it pertains to painting.jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03014751431677271423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-10014148821247866822009-06-16T13:58:43.946-04:002009-06-16T13:58:43.946-04:00Stape, we are on the same wavelength. I was just ...Stape, we are on the same wavelength. I was just thinking about line vs mass this morning, and how I want to add more line into my studies.<br /><br />This has been a very liberating post for me. I have always loved line drawing, but have always been instructed to draw tonally (now I realize, a product of the type of classes/workshops I have taken). I see the benefit of doing linear drawings. Ingres' drawings show the same wonderful suppression of values in the lights as his paintings do - I want to study him and someday achieve that.<br /><br />In regards to Jeff's comment, I would most assuredly put Anthony Ryder in the mass category. Sure he uses line, but only to block in the contour of the figure. After that he uses multiple layers of hatches to build up tone. Also, there is not much suppression of light values in his work. In fact, a lot of his drawing is kind of low key. Look at his painting process too - same thing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17579185594957855023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-42000129204809306012009-06-16T12:32:22.288-04:002009-06-16T12:32:22.288-04:00seems to me that one should both.
Anthony Ryder do...seems to me that one should both.<br />Anthony Ryder does both, he starts out with a very controlled contour and then uses the pencil, not unlike painting in this regard, to build up the tonalities.jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03014751431677271423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-54492485984447766472009-06-16T12:02:36.464-04:002009-06-16T12:02:36.464-04:00Very interesting post. I just got done reading The...Very interesting post. I just got done reading The Practice and Science of Drawing by Harold Speed where he spends many chapters talking about both linear and mass drawing. The linear examples you chose are really beautiful and I will be copying them all.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05498251596454119131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-44703209207164995992009-06-16T11:26:16.155-04:002009-06-16T11:26:16.155-04:00Armand:
Thanks,I used a Heinrich Kley on this blog...Armand:<br />Thanks,I used a Heinrich Kley on this blog recently. I idolized him in high school.Maybe I need to do a Heinrich Kley post.Check out Armands blog at<br /><br />http://artandinfluence.blogspot.com/<br /><br />.............StapeStapleton Kearnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226409516935208164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-49582823447033682652009-06-16T10:28:31.338-04:002009-06-16T10:28:31.338-04:00Stapleton
Great post. I always associate linear ...Stapleton <br /><br />Great post. I always associate linear drawing with people like Heinrich Kley and Alphonse Mucha. Mucha especially had a elegant graphic style to his work. He could draw hands and feet better than anybody.armandcabrerahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01772142818316748471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-60325177897754092832009-06-16T10:03:13.818-04:002009-06-16T10:03:13.818-04:00hemotmot;
Check out this blog,
http://drawingthemo...hemotmot;<br />Check out this blog,<br />http://drawingthemotmot.wordpress.com/<br /><br />its scary to write on drawing and then find out folks like this are out there. This is an exciting draftsman.<br />I am going to have readers shooting at me for a week, however, I would classify Rembrandt as decidedly a mass drawing guy. In the etchings, and in his drawings. Most etchers tend to be mass drawing types despite the line nature of the medium. The ability to raise burr and work with softpoint methods makes etching ideally suited to chiaroscuro.I guess I need to do a series of posts on etching too. I collect them.I actuall met my wife by inviting she and her roommate home to see my etchings after a party.<br />...........StapeStapleton Kearnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226409516935208164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-67782430887136495952009-06-16T10:01:44.404-04:002009-06-16T10:01:44.404-04:00Knit,
I shall allow you the last word.
..............Knit,<br />I shall allow you the last word.<br />............StapeStapleton Kearnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226409516935208164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-67498130133086350862009-06-16T09:07:46.692-04:002009-06-16T09:07:46.692-04:00Well, don't know much about history, (didn'...Well, don't know much about history, (didn't Sam Cooke's soul get him in trouble?)and I also love Ingres, but you can not say he has more soul than Holbein and Clouet. He's cold, it was his goal, and his charm.Knitting Out Loudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16782755995584475858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-15704061031788313152009-06-16T09:01:23.211-04:002009-06-16T09:01:23.211-04:00Interesting about the difference between line draw...Interesting about the difference between line drawing and mass drawing- that's the first time I've seen the comparison made.<br /><br />Was Rembrandt a mass or line artist or both? It could be argued that he was adept at both, especially when you look at his etchings.<br /><br />Just found your blog- look forward to spending some time here!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-59932615140986681352009-06-16T08:48:44.739-04:002009-06-16T08:48:44.739-04:00Knit:
Perhaps Prud'hon,but not Ingres, he is s...Knit:<br />Perhaps Prud'hon,but not Ingres, he is so fabulous, I love him,he HAS MORE SOUL THAN SAM COOKE.<br />............StapeStapleton Kearnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00226409516935208164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5682081471599286551.post-69064553889719193482009-06-16T08:23:25.482-04:002009-06-16T08:23:25.482-04:00These drawings just blew me away. As did your won...These drawings just blew me away. As did your wonderful description "the ethereally delicate modulation of the values". Have always loved Clouet. Don't Ingres and Prud'hon look a bit soul-less (sp?) next to the others?Knitting Out Loudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16782755995584475858noreply@blogger.com